FUGITIVE is always on the run. If there’s one thing I couldn’t stress more about the Brooklyn producer/DJ, it’s that tracking him down can be a caper. Actually, bits of his Swim Team crew and I have a Tumblr idea involving videos and pics of us/people waiting out front of and breaking into the many hideouts of FUGITIVE’s dwellings. Subsequently, this apartment is also where FUGITIVE hosts a production/manufacturing studio for his label Bootleg Tapes and clothing company, Craigslist. But nothing pulls FUGITIVE from a good live gig, which instantly demands audience participation upon shifting tracks, burning what’s already lit into a fire that continues to evolve the current NYC club scene (especially its hidden, darker corners).
Although he feels his name has always been FUGITIVE, he recently began adding the moniker to bills, having formerly used Lord$M$. But his moniker change to FUGITIVE really does best describe his relentless DJ style, HD production frantics, nondescript fashion sense, and airplane-mode communication. Below is the chronicle of conversations (photography by Brain Kelly and Kyle Keese) we’ve had throughout 2015 depicting his life, having always been one long chase scene, living the hustle since day one.
ALSO, exclusive to Tiny Mix Tapes is a mix (below) by FUGITIVE for your listening pleasure throughout the reading, including some familiar and unreleased surprises:
Bedroom, Bushwick
What was one of your first albums you purchased on your own? *Knocks a stack of CDs*
The first CD I ever bought was from Coconuts or something, and it was that Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz release with “Dejà Vu” on it, which was a pop song at the time, but the album, Make It Reign was hard. And it had a Parental Advisory sticker on it. So, I remember going in and telling the girl that it was for my brother’s birthday; I was like nine, I had to promise her it was for his birthday and like act like I knew nothing about the music. I was just trying to be a good little brother and buy him a birthday present.
So you mostly started out buying cassette tapes?
Since my brother is 10 years older than me, and we had different fathers who both weren’t in our lives, he and I bonded closely. So around the age five or six, I’d start hanging around him and his friends, smoking weed and shit really young, and listening to a lot of their music. Instead of being turned down at stores to buy tapes, he’d just make me mixes and bootlegs on blank tapes, and in the long-run it helped because my mom would know I shouldn’t be listening to something with that Parental Advisory sticker on it. I would have folders and briefcases that held all these tapes that I cherished, and as I’d get into other music, buying Korn and other shit, I’d cut the Parental Advisory out, color a piece of paper similar to the j-card, and tape it in so she wouldn’t know. Or just flip the j-card. And for awhile my brother lived with his father in Connecticut, and he’d record Hot 97 DJ Clue’s 90-minute mixes (Monday Night Mixtape). So he’d record it, write in all the artists, and these were the bootleg tapes he’d make. Some I still cherish today.
A lot of the time, my brother had me listen to hip-hop, which was a nice, steady in-take, rather than how I was jumping around to all these different types and genres. Eventually, I began purchasing bootleg tapes around Canal Street, ones my brother didn’t have and especially G-Unit mixtapes. G-Unit mixtapes were and are my favorite to find, because their whole vibe was bringing the mainstream back to the streets. But everything was so bootleg about it, like the cover art and even the music. Like, 50 Cent bootlegs his own song, flipping his original lyrics by singing over it again, just shitting on his original song because these mixtapes weren’t gaining revenue going directly back to him, unless it’d be on the low. And I loved how he was killing it underground while also remaining on the front pages of magazines. All the while people would be bummed I’m so into Southern rap or 50, but also hearing stories about how he’d come through the hood with a top-drop Hummer, killing it in Bay Ridge.
But I’d say my most cherished G-Unit mixtape I found in Harlem, which is now a bootleg of a bootleg because I lost the original, and it was by Cutmaster C, who overdubbed it so loud that you need to level out your sound, and thus is itself super-bootleg, but with bootleg tracks as an official G-Unit release. It’s just a good look for them. It’s called G-Unit Summer Mixtape.
This is interesting to me because a lot of your releases aren’t albums at all; most of your releases are mixes or collaborations, side from last year’s Wonton Swoosh.
I think being a DJ first is what that directly stems from because I like to showcase my style and energy so people can get a direction of where I am in my own music, and find our where it fits into what I make. Like, most of the Boiler Room set was all my work, except for some Acemo and cakedog works. But I’ve been a DJ since a young age, so it’s more about creating this personality for what I do. So since the age of like 15, I’ve been into doing record DJing at parties, and then later bars and clubs, doing it with Andre and other friends. And it’s taken me a long time to how I make music today because I do make a lot of other things, learning the functionality of hardware and software, and the design of making different sounds I want to make. “16stoned” is a good representation of this, having that song in my head, spending a couple days getting a good flow, and letting it just come out naturally than through a process of sound creation.
In terms of production, and as an audiophile, I find a lot of inspiration from Daniel Lopatin work as Oneohtrix Point Never and his label Software, from gathering artists, to his vision and appearance as an artist. There’s no gimmick with him. He doesn’t try-to-not-try. It’s just about his music. I was really excited when he signed my pal Cayman.
I want the intensity of the siren to sound like the city is right behind you. Putting listeners into my environment is how I use my influence and making FUGITIVE music is inspired by the peak high of your night. I want people (high on molly or not) to obtain that same vision. Like tapping into a consciousness that creates anxiety and then drops it just as much in the music as one would settle with emotion.
What names have you used throughout your lineage? BessedOf was definitely not your first moniker
My first name was Yess Milk, and I have a video on YouTube where I sample Herbie Hancock. But I’d always looked at LORD$M$ as my outlet for having FUN. Where I’m at now with making music under my current moniker, FUGITIVE, I can make club music fun and quality rather than a joke. Take it seriously. Directing it to club and dance and DJ work, like with Swim Team events. Though, I’ve been sleeping on the moniker Placebo De Niro in the back of my head for a bit now, and am looking to use it to generate more original music and self-made samples and orchestrating music. I’ll be working more of that stuff on the side, especially when I’m more completely aligned with myself as an musician. My whole life I’ve been working up to the point I’m at now, and a lot of people have been trying to get me to stop and concentrate on just one thing, but I’ve always had this urge to always be working on everything, so now I’m in this place where I couldn’t be if I hadn’t explored all these possibilities. So I was constantly working on learning all this shit at the same time, making anyone around me insane, while learning to refine my organizational skills, my fucking time management, and scheduling just because that’s who I am.
You mentioned you didn’t have you father in your life, so assuming you were with your mother, did SHE go insane because of your maximalist attitude?
I actually got kicked out when I was 15. I just got into bad shit when I was young. So even as I was young, when I wasn’t making music, her soul and jazz LP collection would influence my tastes in music a lot. She also has a large cassette collection as well, so on Sundays, she’d make brunch and I’d go through her collection and play some. But I was mostly into the maturity of these records, looking at the art work, who helped orchestrated the album in the credits, then looking up who was in what other albums I liked, etc. Which led me to DJ for a jazz club for three years when I was about 19 or 20.
And my first night I was really nervous; my mom and a couple of friends came; it was at this spot called Mono + Mono on E. Fourth St. between First and Second Ave.s; it was really nice, this psychopath owner — who I had a wonderful relationship with — had a rotisserie of album covers that just went around the place that would fall on tables sometimes; totally dangerous, but it all was very nice. There [were] almost 50,000 records on this one giant wall. I could just walk in there and pick out a bunch of records to play, DJing their collection. Then he gave me my own nights, DJing hip hop and instrumentals. The owner just really liked my tastes, he was paying me good, free meals and beers, my friends their always got food; it was just a really cool spot. But it ended up burning down, [and] just beforehand, he was talking to me about buying this $3,000 vintage, analog record player, put it up front and let me DJ on that.
Driving Ford Fusion, Interior, Brooklyn
Left.
Do you have your driver’s license?
Yes, but it’s suspended. Due to being too risky while working for a catering company out on Long Island.
You gotta do, though. Is that how you met DJLILMATT69/ Yung/DaddyAOL?
Not through catering, but he and I have known each other for a long time. Before Swim Team, We used to have a similar crew called Deity Gang, which was comprised of a rapper ( Sidewalk Kal), and we started to form ideas and opinions, but Kal thought they were all corny, so that crew split because it was just unorganized.
Left or straight?
Stay straight for awhile. I met Matt through this girl VHVLwhile talking with her and her boyfriend at the time Baebro outside a venue about who they were listening to most at the time, and they were like, “You don’t know Mattron?” You two need to link ASAP!” So I messaged him on SoundCloud, and we started talking, which rarely happens because we never answer back to people on SoundCloud. It took us a couple weeks to hook up, but when we did, we VHS-taped the whole thing and we’re pretty much the same now as we were then. And he became someone who’d enable the comfortability with myself. From that, we moved in together and and I got him a job at Supreme, we tried to take the opportunity to do our own project, and it all opened up doors outside of beat-tape/scene work. We butt-heads, and get over things together, so it’s really important that I met someone like Matt in my life to expand myself. Left. And this relationship snowballed into Swim Team; Color Plus and AceMo signing on originally as a mini Swim Team, evolving into the current crew. *Lights up*
I never want to label my work as sample-based music because that connotation has a bad sound to me. I sample sounds. I sample hits. I sample myself. It’s not like I’m recording instruments dictated to like… it just sounds free to me.
How did John (a.k.a. DJ JOHN BROOKLYN, a.k.a. Kanyon) come on the Swim Team scene?
I don’t know if he hit me up first or vice-versa, but I was really into his shit back then because it was super-futuristic. And even though Matt was not a big fan of Kanyon music at that time, he and John were friends, but didn’t know John was Kanyon. So the first instance of meeting John was at some show I played, we all hung out, and he has helped with the initial and now aesthetics of Swim Team, generally just being a great edition to the crew. It wasn’t until this past summer that we started hangout out way more often. He’s just smart, has good detail to him, he’s a quiet killer.
Parked Ford Fusion, Interior, Forrest Hills
I’m aware you’re a big William Cooper fan. How do you see his influence upon/within Bootleg Tapes?
Growing up, my mom would have weird friends she’d make me hang out and talk with, just to have guys in my life, and one was just a huge conspiracy theorist, who I don’t think my mom knew about, and would try to trip me out like, “Man, there’s aliens everywhere. Good and bad ones. Shapeshifters.” And out of all the shit he told me, only William Cooper’s writings stuck. He showed me this two-hour long video of William Cooper going over the Kennedy assassination, pointing out all the flaws and cover-ups. So I got into a lot of the truth in his character, which I’ve been reading up on his writings and readings since then. What sparks me up the most about him — but not to get too deep because there are plenty of William Cooper fans out there — he’d come out with a lot of evidence overnight at once because he knew drawing a lot of attention to it would be the best way into surviving and not being knocked off.
… His mentality of not wanting to do what he was doing, but not doing so would be ludicrous, is exactly what I find inspirational about William Cooper. I am into making music into a reality of, “Why would you make that?” But being specific about not caring about the question of “Why” and just trying to ascertain that originality.
Shopping in Trader Joe’s, Interior, Forrest Hills
So this thought process is pretty much interchangeable between Swim Team and Bootleg?
Exactly. It’d all for originality. When people look back on these musics, I want them to think, “Why did they make music like that?” It’s a lot easier to think of what FUGITIVE’s style because I don’t hold back. As you were saying, how I have more mixes than “releases,” I’ve just been patiently waiting to put out stuff that is my style rather than trying to make a certain sound. And that’s been an interesting road to want to make a bunch of different music. “RULER (9” Edit)” was easy too because we cut up that vocal and used it to the full extend. There’s also rumors about Kanyon and me being well-endowed.
Shit, Bryant wanted me to get some oats.
Right now, I’m in a place of not having emotional attachment of outside things when I make shit. It’s nice to be able to sit down and concentrate on my music that way without my feelings overtaking my composition process.
Yeah, shit, where did you two dudes meet up?
Bryant and I met up at a Dirty Tapes event. *Blows Raspberry*
How long did it take to make ??LAMPGOD??**L_RD//$M$??**$$EXT8PE???
Bryant has a real patience with music that I respect. It’s at his own speed. And it was right before ??LAMPGOD??**L_RD//$M$??**$$EXT8PE?? came out. Actually, the sales from ??LAMPGOD??**L_RD//$M$??**$$EXT8PE?? helped him move in to an apartment with me. The first time we hung out, we spoke all night and about theory and artists, and found we were into the same shit when it came to being over certain aspects of current music making. Around 2:30 AM, we plugged in two 404s separately to a mixer, and we showed each other the samples we’d be using briefly, but nothing else on how we’d mix. We recorded this initial interaction on a CS-5, the interaction was so organic together, and the tape clicked exactly at five minutes when we brought the levels down to finish.
What are you using them chia seeds for?
Actually, this is Bryant’s creation: a banana, cocoa, chia seeds, honey, rolled oats, cayenne pepper, and peanut butter. Excuse me.
LADY: “Sorry”
All good. The smoothie is really good. So we ended up recording ??LAMPGOD??**L_RD//$M$??**$$EXT8PE?? a couple months later, just chilling together. Originally, it was going to be a Dirty Tapes release, as we were helping with the label, but weren’t exactly feeling appreciated for our work, nor was Daniel completely down with our ideas, so we decided to record the tape and put it out ourselves. Putting it out on Bootleg was easy because it was the first release: buying and making the tape, putting it out ourselves. As LAMPGOD, Bryant uses a lot of VHS samples, so we made it in five days, locked in my room, him cutting up video samples, me cutting up music samples, then visa versa, both editing what we give each other.
This started as a two-day project, but at the time, had to leave on the fifth day of recording, so we mastered and cut it that day. Iit was Bootleg Tapes’ first release. No sleep. I actually fell asleep showing him the cover art I made, was falling back, and awoke seconds later to a shirtless Bryant also blacked out. I also started smoking NewPees again because of ??LAMPGOD??**L_RD//$M$??**$$EXT8PE??. Upon his return, he helped me with the first few Bootleg Tapes, which was a blessing.
Where did the conception for Simulator come about?
Simulator was initially a moniker I used for exploring dance music on the side, but privately. So we combined skills again, locking ourselves in a room; I showed him one track to give an example of what I wanted to work with, and he brought back a track of just completely insane shit, which is pretty much the second track on Glass Brixx Vol.1. It was exactly what I wanted to hear: the completely next level of what I was already trying to shoot for, which then I would try to reach there too with every track thereafter. At this point, Glass Brixx Vol.1 is one of my favorite Bootleg Tapes. Oh, shit, gluten-free flour? I’m going to make EVERYTHING with this!
Like what?
LIKE WHAT? Everything I can’t already eat: pizza, bread, dough, etc. I’m getting ALL the shit that’s gluten-free here.
Parked Ford Fusion, Interior, Forrest Hills
In the same sense of working with Bryant, as you do with a lot of producers, I got a drop on some future news that you and James “Dreams” West were collaborating on a new project. Care to information drop that?
He’s a good pal, James. New project is called Spiderman 3. It’s just some deep-house stuff we’re both psyched on. And it’s music we wouldn’t be making if *DROPS CHANGE* we were doing it alone. We’re just both doing other shit separately, so making a deep-house together was just what we wanted to do. I was just like, “Yo, you and me are Spiderman 3. We have this track of a few synths and sampling: let’s make this happen and let’s make it work.” And now it’s the perfect setting. I’ll roll to his house, grip weed, get stoned, make tracks, dip out, listen to em the next day, and they turn out really good. So rather than setting up studio time, most of these tracks are just hang time.
Since we’re both pretty lose, but also have a good connection and understanding of making music, we’ll just take turns on making part of the song while the other sits there and rolls up another joint. So he’ll make the drums, and then turn to me and ask if I’ll program them as he smokes. Switching on and off.
I am into making music into a reality of, “Why would you make that?” But being specific about not caring about the question of “Why” and just trying to ascertain that originality.
You just collaborate so much with mixing and production work that is so rarely done in this music scene, so it’s unexpected. Who haven’t you collaborated with and would like to in the future?
I’ve been really blessed with getting to reach out to artists that I like, which I’m thankful for. It’s hard to think about having collaborated with DJ NJ DRONE, D/P/I, AceMo, and just the Swim Team crew in general, outside of Bryant and James. Definitely Cakedog (Ahnnu) is one. But new opportunities will always open up as I continue to meet new people, so it’ll be a totally different echelon of artistry through my enjoyment of discovering new personalities.
Making music and putting stuff out on Bootleg makes this all more relative than just hearing new tracks online. Like, the establishment of physical tapes and putting a heavier honor to the label and the music we represent is exactly what I’m trying to create as an experience. That and not being scared to make this connection with certain artists. If it’s corny or people aren’t into it, that’s OK to agree and just move on to the next person who does see me eye-to-eye. It’s all about connecting like-minds.
Even just looking at the whole roster of Bootleg, I want it to come back around and be able to put out more releases for these people, like Kanyon, Jay Curry, etc. AceMo has something coming out that’s solid, as well as a collaborative AceMo/FUGITIVE EP. I can never stop thinking of expansion.
Driving Ford Fusuion, Interior, Brooklyn
Dare I ask: who’s been the easiest person to collaborate with either musically or general Bootleg release-wise?
AceMo is definitely that to me. He’s sort of like this little brother figure to me that’s constantly showing me up. This past summer when I was really zoning in on my working and making it sound better with Abelton, sorta striving for faster stuff, influenced by footwork and other shit, staying true to the, “I like that, I should make that” mentality, so it’ll come out and make sense. At the same time, AceMo was doing the same thing, making the same shit, so while collaborating, his imagination was right there with mine, and he was always anxious to continue. Just hyping us up with, “Let’s go, let’s go, let’s go!”
I mean, it really all works well because you’re just a very good team-work minded guy, don’t you think?
Thank you, man. Well, with Ace it was cool because he came over to make a track one day, but I felt dumb that I had never made any collaborative tracks on Abelton before. Take a left. So I was interested in seeing if it’d work out, having never done it bef — WATCH OUT, WATCH OUT, WATCH OUT, WATCH OUT!!
*BLARING HORN*
Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry
Fuuuuuuck. Woooof. We almost just DIED.
I’m really sorry about that. I really hate scaring people
It’s alllll good. Sick. Headline: “During the interview we KILL the artist: his final words, we guarantee it!”
So, fucking with Abelton and AceMo
Right, we really just died, though. Like, nearly hit head on by two cars. Um — holy shit. So yeah, I basically just figured out that he and I use Abelton the exact same way, previously thinking I was the only one doing that. From there, we evolved using Abelton together, starting to try things that was more organized, making heavy hybrid tracks, better than I can make myself, and at sometimes impossible to do solo, as we’re frequently doing sequences on pads with both hands, all four hands, simultaneously. Obviously anyone I work with, I do it because there’s a great chemistry we build together. With Ace, though, our tracks are the most solid and finished tracks, and they come to us together the fastest.
Have you ever collaborated with someone entirely URL?
No. Most of the musicians I fuck with are IRL, however MET through URL. Like this new release I’m doing for Machinegirl, who I met online.
Personally, then: do you ever plan on putting out an album as Lord$M$?
Take a right. Um.. define an album?
The way Lil B defines an album
I mean, I’d say WONTON SWOOSH is an album, but it’s an EP. It’s my first little condensed folder of tracks I’ve made starting Lord$M$, though now I want to make many more and put ‘em out on Bootleg and wherever else. I don’t want to be the guy always putting his own shit out. It’d be nice to hook up with other artists, while taking focus off the production of the physical album or pushing sales, and solely concentrating on the music. Take a right at the gas station.
My whole life I’ve been working up to the point I’m at now, and a lot of people have been trying to get me to stop and concentrate on just one thing, but I’ve always had this urge to always be working on everything, so now I’m in this place where I couldn’t be if I hadn’t explored all these possibilities.
Where did the name WONTON SWOOSH originate?
WONTON SWOOSH came from the whole idea of influence from bootleggers, and my take on the reality of what quality is and presenting something that was… I mean, the first time the title came out of me; I was describing a bootleg Nike swoosh. And through the presentation of it as an album title branded my aesthetic to the LORD SMS name. Using the swoosh was just a consistency I felt was appropriate for defining this, as well as representing my influence of marketing.
So, you’re just generally into bootleg products, the way their made and the artistry it takes to forge a separate, popular brand, yes?
Definitely. So much so that, I just saw this documentary on how bootleggers (who’ve done this forever, but…) sew a patch or different off-brand logo over say the Adidas symbol, so when they arrive in America, people just unstitch the fake logo, and sell the bootlegs. And customs wouldn’t rip off the logos when they’re shipped in. It’s not about making a new item, but a process of figuring out how to get the extras/counterfeit products into the U.S. under a more blanket hide. And specifically, I love buying bootleg products IRL. I can’t fuck with it URL.
You got a favorite spot, or you can’t sample snitch this?
Oh, man. *Laughs* I have a few spots. I got a few connections in the hood who hit me up when there’s deliveries. One guy is my bootleg Louis Vuitton dealer, and he knows I only like the best stuff, so next week I’m getting a Louis belt and hat. As well as Chinatown, obviously.
Kitchen, Bushwick
Oh those shoes, shit. I’m so stupid.
You didn’t buy them?
No I probably shouldn’t have bought them.
Picking up with your obsession with the artistry of bootleg products… is this the basis behind your Craigslist clothing line?
Bootlegging is definitely an influence on my work with clothing, yes. But Craigslist is really just my opportunity to make stuff with my best friend Kamil Abbas that I’ve never had the opportunity to obtain before. I’ve always been interested in design, and have come up with some really cool shit, so once I started to make stuff, I saw him making clothing in somewhat of the same realm. Our intent was trying to not make things corny and gimmicky by producing an original style. The process can even be making the design prior to the clothing, and not just created around what the item looks like worn, but previous to even obtaining the shirts or whatever we’re printing on.
I love Kamil, so it’s beautiful to do this stuff now because Craigslist isn’t meant to be a permanent thing, and playing having the opportunity currently to do it, while being able to flip something, it’s almost a mock of the bootleg culture in the streets for club-kid wear, gripping from the specific respect of how bootleg designers take time to replicate their art: we’re mocking in that same sense. Designers and fashions catch on from being noticed and then marked up. But the whole idea of this world beneath that, doing what I want with a brand name that’s not well-known, marketing it like everyone else would be. Looking at this outside of the big game, it’s just clothes I’d want to wear and look fresh in, not wearing someone else’s brand. Then we have plans for just working on other types of branding and management. Kamil and I connect a lot of great people and it’s an honor to have a great friend, roommate, and business partner all in one. Just watch, you’ll see.
Do you look up to any peers within the same realm you’re in?
Richard from 1080p I linked up with recently, as he’s going to school for design, puts on shows, and has put out some interesting releases on his label within the past year. Definitely Chris from Paxico Records and Daniel from Dirty Tapes have both been undoubtedly influential to me. Although, working with Bootleg, I stopped hanging out with others so much, which I got backlash from Daniel about because of everything I explained before about Dirty Tapes and my involvement.
Though, later on, Daniel and I patched things up, so I’ve learned that I can be friends with people, but not work with all of them. And at this point, Bootleg has built up pretty well; choosing to put my head down gave me the opportunity to focus on what was directly in front of me. By doing that, I’ve gained a lot of trust and confidence in myself which was much needed to be able to do my own thing, birthing everything you see now.
All it’s about is keeping it real. I gotta focus on my health, the label and clothing design, my music as a DJ and producer, friendships and connections I’m making, having jobs on the side; I’m constantly going on this. I’m separate from society, but I still need to eat, sleep, and shit. Nobody but Bryant and a select few people were supporting me when Bootleg Tapes began, and looking back on that now gives the label a confident foundation. I love gathering all types of feedback, but it doesn’t change what I’m doing. My interest lies in structuring the label how I feel it’s heading, finding musicians, and putting on shows.
How have shows been going now that FUGITIVE is more established as a name and grown through the personality you’re intending on keeping?
Shows have been great, I do plan on putting on Bootleg shows, definitively. Although, I might not be putting my name on the bill at all, because I don’t want people think that just because it’s a Bootleg show, FUGITIVE has to perform… Like, that’s just overdoing it. I’d rather put all the energy into putting on an excellent show than focusing on my set AND the show. So, separating that provides a platform for the artists moreso than just me or the Bootleg name. And even though people might not think exactly that, I don’t even want to chance it.
Obviously very excited for the future of Swim Team’s presence in NYC, but mostly the WHOLE WORLD. We’ve put the work in and I’m so confident in what we have to offer, especially when it comes to us performing together. We have the perfect design, we have the ability to give shine to artists we fuck with, but most importantly we all have the skill to really rock any party anywhere at any given time. The next Swim Team party HOUSEHOLD will be on the 30th with DJ NJ DRONE and Juliana Huxtable, with Tsunami Sound System. I can’t wait!!
Yeah Shanghai Deluxe, Chinatown
DUDE
Oh my god. That looks SO good, but it’s too much food. I might go duck tongue.
You ever go to summer camp as a kid?
Yeah, I hated summer camp, but knew my mom needed that time. The further I get away from my childhood, I realize how in-tune I was with what was going on, but still was just a kid. Like, one day I was in school and saw a guy walking across the street out the window, and he was all dirty and worn-looking… I was just anxiously awaiting the day to do whatever I want. I just wanted that freedom.
Do you feel you draw upon this maturity of thought while making music?
I definitely appreciate freedom enough that it puts me in solitude, when I need to be. But generally I like collaborating with people because I love sharing knowledge on how to make music. That’s something I have to look introspectively too, just deciding on if I want to do music as me or with someone else, and I make this decision based on just the freedom of how I feel. Right now, I’m in a place of not having emotional attachment of outside things when I make music. It’s nice to be able to sit down and concentrate on my music that way without my feelings overtaking my composition process. I have folders and resources and sounds and ideas that I save and have learned to keep to this system and continue to build on these, so when I sit down, there’s already a process for me. But sitting down and trying to make a track: I hate that without feeling inspired. I love spontaneous music-making, but sitting down and developing my own song gives it much more focus.
Waiter: Two hot sake, chicken, and shrimp.
Lately I’ve been working on combining all the ways I’ve made music before, dialing into…
Your struggle trying to eat those two peanuts is going into the interview, btw.
Yo, it was one peanut, it just dropped twice! *[Drops it a third time]*
I gotta focus on my health, the label and clothing design, my music as a DJ and producer, friendships and connections I’m making, having jobs on the side; I’m constantly going on this. I’m separate from society, but I still need to eat, sleep, and shit.
Back into it because fuck eating: Do you see this new work fitting under the Fugitive moniker?
Lord $M$ was a real easy way to have a moniker for me as a DJ, doing remixes and edits, collaborating with Young AOL at the time I started, and it’d blended now into making club and dance tracks with Swim Team. It bounced off the other producers in Swim Team, and that’s where Lord $M$ peaked. Using what I can as a musician within a club setting, sounding good and using what I know now. I had to show respect to the quality of what Swim Team is doing and in my opinion put on a more true pertaining moniker, hence the birth of FUGITIVE.
So it’s definitely not an album-making moniker?
I’d definitely make a tape or put out this project on another label, but I mostly would like to start projecting myself as a serious musician.
Would there be more dichotomy between sample-based and synthetic tracks?
I find myself making sounds from other sounds because it’s the same thing, like — if you’re manipulating a sound to a place that’s unrecognizable, it’s different how…
British Patron: “El Bandito! Victory Manchester United!” *Pointing at Fugitive’s Mexican soccer jersey*
Thanks. But I feel like there’s just different levels of sampling music. That’s where I just stop giving a FUCK about phrasing things. Phrasing something goes to the extreme. I never want to label my work as sample-based music because that connotation has a bad sound to me. I sample sounds. I sample hits. I sample myself. It’s not like I’m recording instruments dictated to like… it just sounds free to me. There’s a freedom I have when I sit down to make tracks because of the way I work now, and my organization has fully transpired into what I need. Loads of software and structure, loads of hardware, it’s all unnecessary.
Music-making to me, to make whatever I want, involves way more self discipline and originality and self-style. Not the figure or newest shit I have. You make music sound high definition and lo-fi both very easily now. And it’s really important to know your history and research what you’re into and honor and respect what your creating…
What are you trying to respect in history as FUGITIVE?
Naturally, a clear influence on FUGITIVE is how footwork and juke made its way into contemporary club music, and my take on it is…
British Patron: “Boys, you have a lighter, mates?” *C gives him a lighter*
…When I started playing that shit in New York, it was so weird for people, so it influenced me to dig deep within myself to other sounds I liked, but continued to use those rhythms. My mom bought me a three-piece drum set when I was five, so I’ve always been a drummer in different bands, then started playing piano, had a teacher who wanted me to make a song before class, but would just make it up on the spot. She would say that my songs were “drummy.” Now, when I’m banging on pads and collaborating with Ace, it’s a funny feeling to have that comfort of knowing that it something within me. And as footwork/juke spins from drum-and-bass methods, I was inspired more as a producer to work outside a template and specific sound to find a creative space. Trying to open the density of Chicago’s scene and seeing how to recreate and transpose styles of New York techno and house from the 90s (which is exactly what motivates and pushes Swim Team’s aesthetic).
The FUGITIVE high uses (let’s say) a siren, and I’ll figure out new ways to drop it or cut it so it’s not overused in the same sense it has always been played. I want the intensity of the siren to sound like the city is right behind you. Putting listeners into my environment is how I use my influence and making FUGITIVE music is inspired by the peak high of your night. I want people (high on molly or not) to obtain that same vision. Like tapping into a consciousness that creates anxiety and then drops it just as much in the music as one would settle with emotion. Proper coordination of mixing and production within hectic environments is what makes me feel comfortable now. I can trust that in my sound while not feeling too weird about what I’m playing for others.
FUGITIVE is like a plastic, controlled substance. My next project I want to be very free, with nothing related to FUGITIVE, although I’ll always be part of that name; FUGITIVE will never die.
Why the name Lord $M$?
I find that people saying technology makes society more isolated is said so much that we don’t think about breaking out of that anymore. Or how it makes us lazier, or it’s all about instant gratification and us as a society is shit, yet it is all true. But when you look at it, as a species, we’re just learning how to avoid each other. So, Lord $M$ is at a point where it’s AVOIDANCE. My grandma had been calling me for so long and is mad because I don’t have voicemail setup, and can’t use SMS, and it’s not that I don’t want to talk to HER, but my system of talking to people — it’s not that I avoid talking to people, I just have a set amount of people I do speak with quite a bit. When I created the name, it was during a period when everyone was using retro technology in their names, so I tried going for something more temporary.
Yeah, you’re shit sometimes at getting back at people. Wait-wait-wait, was that your public admittance to why you’re terrible at getting back at people?
Yeah. Well, no. It just is what it is. I mean it. [LAUGHS]
I believe you. When you make a new release, do you find it matures you or it matures your sound?
Both. It goes off of me refining my sound and technique, which is heard within the release. And I don’t like flexing very much, but I can say I’m pretty amazing at performing.
I think I know a couple people who could say that too…
I get a certain high from performing. I can really just disconnect from everything else. Not like a hippy deal, but evolving and learning as I’m DJing and live mixing. Some performers bring that energy, and being in-tune with that is important or people will completely miss it. That’s why I want to play more, especially around the world. My next goal is to tour the world with Swim Team and Bootleg Tapes artists, gain all these experiences with those guys, and then come back here and bring that exposure to New York, make better tracks, and building and branching. Meeting new artists. Keeping it local with Bootleg Tapes. You can’t slow down. You can’t be discouraged. The more you look up at people, the more shit gets made, and the better your shit gets. That formula works. It’s worked for me and I’ve seen it work. And going back to this name FUGITIVE is where I’d like to freely expand this more-so.
Bedroom, Bushwick
You were talking about Lil Ugly Mane’s DJ, Mr. Whoa Whoa…
Well, he was the one who put me on to DJing with software when I was in a weird transition between a hardware/noise guy, but definitely wanting to support the continuation of others releasing vinyl and cassettes; the rush to the extreme of “everything is obsolete” is my worry in ways where I feel like its necessary to not be extreme. In terms of how people are presenting their releases, like when cassettes became “obsolete” because of CDs, a lot of people were like, “Throw away all those tapes and buy the same albums on CDs! You can skip through them now.” That seemed to be the first era of a format that had so many variables, and comparing it to a cassette, you can toss it around, pop in a tape player, no scratches, etc. But I’m also unsure of my feelings for the recent Cassette Store Day because I don’t want to focus on the sale of tapes, or to honor them in that way. That’s when things are going a little too far for me.
One day I realized at a barbecue, while switching between two contemporary cassette tapes, I was taken back to a younger part of my life when I’d go and buy brand-new tapes and listen to them on my brother’s car stereo system (that cost more than the car), dumping these tapes, and listening to them with him, considering he’d hype them to me. Then the golden age of hip hop hits, and I’m buying ATLiens and Capital Punishment, witnessing him and friends experience this music on tape; when I finally get another car, I’ll get the best cassette-deck system in it. There’s just such a range on cassettes that one can explore.
Audio range is really important to you, yeah. How do you perceive Bootleg in this matter, then?
I’m so involved in the quality of every tape. All the levels, and highs or lows blending, mashed and mixed, I don’t want that. To me, not doing it perfectly is taking someone’s work and fucking it up; it’s not putting it out there how it should be heard. Every Bootleg Tapes release I put out on cassette, I master to my specific satisfaction, and that’s all I’ve had to worry about since day one. Which, in my perspective, is how Bootleg Tapes come out the best sounding tapes out there. If I were to take a tally of everyone, I’m sure there’d be a slew of people judging on how this-or-that should sound, but I don’t give a fuck. That’s Bootleg’s sound on cassettes. Not even to rub in the idea that Bootleg Tapes sells cassettes, but more-so the memory of buying mixtapes put onto CDs, and just flipping around that idea. Latching on to the idea of cassettes as their specific medium is something I’m trying hard to move away from, because that’s some closed-minded, hard-headed shit. I don’t need that anymore.
To me, Bootleg Tapes will always be the best music coming out right now. Each release on Bootleg Tapes is special to the artist, and they know where they’re being supported and represented. Color Plus has been one of my favorite producers and getting to work and travel and play shows with him just gives me more respect, watching how strong he is as a performer and seeing how well rounded he is as an artist. Same with Izy. These guys are making some of the best music in regards other than just quality, and its important that its represented right. I cant wait for Izys releases, he has so much good music coming. And having a good strum helps me figure out which will be next. As well as how we’re doubling up now, since AceM0 just dropped Redshift, it’s like we’re just building our muscle as musicians. Building business. Learning how to open up. Strengthening artistry. Developing personal discipline. Seeing that and who prevails has been important. That’s when I know what makes me happy while making the best music. It’s an instinct now. Sometimes it feels like, I either have to do Swim Team and Bootleg Tapes, or I’ll murder somebody.
And that’s why you made the switch to FUGITIVE from Lord$M$?
I would say *Clears throat* the switch was… working from — or maybe just, being held back by…
[Laughs]
OK, you wanted to grab the bong there and I hadn’t hit it yet. Lemme hit it. *Exhales Blows out giant cloud of smoke. Narrates actions. *Coughs. Um. *Coughs deeper. Drinks hot sake.
Why I chose Fugitive? When I was a kid, I would watch The Fugitive, and naturally became comfortable with the storyline, developing an identity with it. Like how this guy was just running and dramatically forced to escape his life. For what it is there, that’s what I was thinking of in a name that would excite me upon hearing it. For Fugitive I’d rather it be more of me making music, and breaking off fully from Lord$M$. I even had a Montreal promoter call it “Mature.” So that’s what Fugitive is right now for me. Having a place to be sure of myself.
More about: Bootleg Tapes, Fugitive, Lords $M$
