Jon M. Lockhart gave up his name miles back. As soon as he began traversing IRL and URL timelines in different cities and states, Jónó Mí Ló immersed and became one with his entirety of self. The fellah has been and done and collab’d and sounded out everything. Maybe. But if you’re being introduced to his work via this interview or having traipsed across him VERY LIVE, or on SoundCloud, or on Bandcamp, or right here on Tiny Mix Tapes: CONGRATULATIONS. You’ve just found one of my favorite humans making music.
Having grown up around the same areas, Lockhart and I get into some deep zones involving hidden influences, mysteries of the Midwest kind, bad energy bars, traveling wherever the music accumulates, and freaking on some fishy stuff.
I gotta finish Monday Night Raw…
How does professional wrestling effect your creative process?
Well, yeah, so that… We’ll talk about this later. There’s just a lot to it. I grew up really young watching professional wrestling; when I was eight. Like most guys, I guess… There’s an AGE you just become aware of the phenomena of it. But then the older I got, it became a cult of personality.
Did you collect those rubber wrestler dolls?
I collected all sorts of that stuff. Granted, my collections were nowhere near what the other guys had. But at that point, I was collecting a lot of stuff.
Where again in Dayton, Ohio, did you grow up?
In Huber…. Huber-tucky.
HuBRIAR Heights? [Laughs]
[Laughs] Huber Fuckin’ Tucky. There’s not enough Google in fucking Huber, OMG.
But, you were more involved in the Dayton noise scene than anything in Huber, right?
Damn. It’s hilarious I get to tell you all this. Well, this one year, around 2003-04, I went to Detroit for an electronic festival. I’d hang around the city; try and hang around and meet people; get friends to come on up. There was this third stage doing this thing with Ersatz Audio, a showcase. And I went THERE to see ADULT., but had to wait in a parking lot through all these other live shows, [and] I’ve already lost all my friends. And if I wandered away, I know it’d take me hours to find ‘em, and would never get back for ADULT. in time. So I decided to sit through whatever was next so I could catch ADULT. and then leave, and it was Wolf Eyes.
And it was just them in this parking garage, and I’m watching all the people and the energy and their set, and it just made me want to seek out music like that, but mostly in Southwest Ohio. I felt like I evolved myself because there was music there after that. I joined/created a band called To-Night Golden Curls with my friend John (from Dayton) and Nick (from Toledo). A friend of mine was doing a radio show at WSU, so I tried to play stuff I was into through there, and other blogs and message boards. But we’d all talk to each other on WSU during this radio show in, well have you been to Fairborn?
Yeah, I lived in Fairborn right off the Yellow Springs exit. Yellow Springs is a shitty name because it means people piss upstream from you.
But it’s so beautiful there! Anyhow, in Fairborn, have you ever passed Teleperformance USA? It’s in that corner. Oh, what is that corner? It’s like two exits before Yellow Springs coming from 70.
Yes, with the dollar store and a crappy Mexican restaurant; middle of nowhere.
YA! And there’s a bar there and some cheap head shop. But I used to work at that call center there with my girlfriend at the time; I was using her car to go to work and I’d be listening to the WSU radio show, hearing them talk about the new Burning Star Core record, so I’d call in and tell ‘em about how I just bought this record and was right down the block in Nowhere, OH. And that’s how I met Nick and John. From there, we began working on music together and this project with us together, but at the same time, I had a separate thing happening, which is what drove me to want to be in Michigan more than stay in Ohio. Ypsilanti first then Detroit.
And did you do noise in Detroit when you were there?
Absolutely. The Midwest is amazing for music.
Well, where along the line do you feel you made a transition between being more abstract to driven by a beat?
I don’t know. I just wanted to be able to find a way to bridge the gap between the two: DJ and performer. So, I went from Ypsilanti to Detroit and..
I was in L.A. and… We were outside a store around Sacramento (weird northern Cali cow town) after this show, had NO money, I tried to steal a Cliff Bar and on the way out, and they caught me.
…Is Michigan where Champion was first conceived with uh — OH! I got something to talk to you about…
Sean?
Yes, T.E.A.M.S.: SEAN. It was him with Mykki Blanco on NYE in the city on 23 St., and his performance bombed because a sound guy fucked up his levels, and he wasn’t able to hear HIMSELF onstage, just an echo in the audience, and would come down and walk up to the sound booth, come back, yell more and not hear himself… I just tried convincing people it was a collaborative performance piece between him and the venue’s sound dude.
Wow! I can’t believe that was New Years Eve. I should ask Sean about that.
When did you initially meet up with him?
MAN! Well, we started out talking on Facebook. This it was so long ago… [Drifts] …Taco Bell!
Taco Bell?
That’s the name of the house we lived at. There is where I tried to bridge a solo creative career in DJ, music, trying to make experimental music, while also making a joke out of all of it, involving that DJ culture and screw music, and [Sean and I] just blended our styles.
And WHAT a blend! So, you and Sean haven’t done anything Teamm Jordann since, right?
Oh, no-no. Sean put out an album Sierra City Center last year and on IT is a Teamm Jordann “edit” of a track.
Different agendas took you away from each other?
It’s more like the arrangement just worked so well for Champion that it’d be hard to replicate now.
You’ve collaborated with people online as well as in person… What works better for you?
Honestly, it depends. I’d really like to (again) try to find my solo creative career, but this time bridge it to professional wrestling.
… I want it to be a meta-narrative involved with club theater. I want people to have a reason to like and want to do IRL again. I want to try to find some way to generate what it means to be IRL again. So, in answer to your question of real or online collaboration, it really just depends on the project.
Where in your music do you see this divide? Your DJing being Jónó Mí Ló and the project is… Daytime Television?
See. And then again, man. I dunno. [Makes explosion sound.] To me, now, Daytime Television just means a lot of different things to me. Not that I’m DONE making music as Daytime Television, but just not now.
You stoked about this Eco Reject Mixtape on Bootleg Tapes?
Yeah, hell yeah!
What happened with Logo and why did they reject the mix?
Well it was up on YouTube, and I wrote their contacts — I had sent what is heard as Eco Reject Mixtape to Sean, and wanted to just do a Teamm Jordann mixtape together, but it never turned out, so I took it off YouTube. I wrote Sean about it and just figured, “Let’s not say it’s Teamm Jordann. I don’t want to say it’s ME, but just had a difference in HOW to share the name.”
Dag. Well, Bootleg Tapes is beyond an excellent label to be on. HAH Was the Splash Tapes YOUTH WITH SKULL IV the last tape you did as Daytime Television?
I believe so.
How do you get in contact with label people generally?
See, that’s what I’m saying by regenerating IRL for people. But I also feel like we’re immersed with stuff. Like with the wrestling thing. It’s a meta-narrative. When you watch it now they are anticipating what people think, and the simulation is SO real now…
In comparison to real-time internet shit with how you feel, what’s your thoughts on SPF 420 still kicking?
It’s like this… The whole thing made me irritated. Then at the same time I didn’t want people got get some weird competitive idea of VAPOR WAVE-B. That’s not what HD Ghettos was about. And those live parties are just so NUTS.
Those just crash out my computer. But you stopped doing HD Ghettos?
It just got to be too much.
Do you see a lot of conflict online within the music community?
It’s like adding my mystique credibly in the background, and I try to frame it using art and music as best as I can. But I don’t understand, from the SPF 420 thing, to the way that people have or tried to represent my work… it’s been strange.
Well, you know Paul C. Bower, right?
Yeah, man! I love Paul!
Well, he asked me throw out the name, Dayton Swim Club. Mean anything to you?
[Laughs] Have you seen… Have you SEEN “There’s something fishy at the Dayton Swim Club”? I mean, if Paul and I highly suggest it, you HAVE to watch it.
I forgot the guy’s name now, but it’s some skeezy, total Dayton briar standing out on Dixie Highway in a Wal-Mart, polyester Bruce Lee button-up shirt, with slicked-back, chubby Predator hair that’s dyed blonde… And he takes you on this tour of a swingers club that used to be out there on Dixie. And it’s called the Dayton Swim Club, thus: “There’s something fishy at the Dayton Swim Club.”
The place and the inside of it is some sorta hillybilly, poor, fucking… OMG. It’s Dayton, so all indoor florescent bleached… There’s a room painted like a barn, with a pig. I have no idea what’s up.
There’s a lot of crazy places like that in Dayton. Like 1470 West…
I never went to the Hills and Dales one, but I have to the one downtown.
Keith Kawaii and I grew up around the corner from 1470 West as kids after it became abandoned. So I never went while they were in operation. But they moved downtown, then turned into Masque…
Masque. 1470 West. Hollllly shit… I played there a bunch of times, but never DJ’d there.
I didn’t want people got get some weird competitive idea of VAPOR WAVE-B. That’s not what HD Ghettos was about. And those live parties are just so NUTS.
Upstairs or downstairs?
Downstairs, but HECK YEAH upstairs. I’d hang out upstairs all the time. Shit, I got insane flashbacks to that club and dance floor. Chairs surrounding the floor. Goth kids everywhere.
Speaking of familiar situations and characters, who is your favorite The Simpsons character?
See, people get all weird on me with that shit, like — see: I LOVE The Simpsons. And it’s not like we can ALL be ALL The Simpsons characters. There can’t be THREE Bart Simpsons in one room, you know? There’s only ONE. Not saying I’m Bart Simpson, but now I just gotta watch some more episodes to figure it out.
Let’s limit it to The Simpsons: Arcade Game …
Ooo… if it’s JUST the family… Arcaaaaade… And Maggie is in the game… I can’t.
Think about it. But I suppose on the topic of art(ish), how do you see your moving images and videos and stills as a characterization of yourself in this club theater, meta narrative motif?
That’s the idea; it’s to take on other dynamics of this characterized role and bring more depth to it. There’s a mystique now where there’s a totally other thing happening through, like, Meet Ups, and people will be present amongst others in a crowd, where it’s really an audience for each person in there.
So, you are yourself as your presentation online as an artist and in reality as an artist, both being different, yet comprised in the same body, thus making some sort of mutual livable dichotomy?
Yes, exactly. Like a dual consciousness. And I didn’t totally grasp this concept until I was deep into professional wrestling later (now) in life.
Would you consider your collaborations “tag teaming?”
Yes, I like that! Did you ever see this magazine from Dayton called Ghettoblaster? Dude, and fucking Xenia and Piqua and Fairborn, I played ALL them places.
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Where in FAIRBORN?
It was probably a TNGC thing. I recorded a lot in Fairborn. And that guy Dan Riser. You know Budweiser Sprite label in Ohio? He and I used to jam and collab… shoot, all them guys. Tag team has always been good.
Even people tag-teaming YOU out there on the fly, like that Free Jono comp…
Oh, that was so sick. I was completely surprised. And the best part was “Why?” Just beautiful. Like what I was saying about HD Ghettos, how there’s suddenly an “off-brand of vaporwave.” And I didn’t want there to be a vaporwave B and have all my URL friends be short-sided with their aesthetics as an afterthought.
Would you consider your aesthetic then as post-Jónó?
[Laughs] Man…
What’s your favorite period of art?
I mean, coming from someone who doesn’t have a background in studying it [in college] in styles or theories, I’d have to say the stuff I really like is modern. What I’m attracted to now is more contemporary. Literally every YouTube video and Vine made yesterday [Laughs hard]… Nahh nahh. But it’s like we’ve reached this point where it’s all instant. That’s what I was getting at with my End of Light Scenarios.
Outside of yourself, you do have any internet artist that you currently follow?
Oh yeah, absolutely. I definitely feel this year, summer 2014, there’s just SO MUCH going on within the internet and expression of self. Even in ways where people can be hyper branded in their own projects. Although, on the flip, not everyone is going to see their results of a project because it’s open for everyone to see when they please. So for me, giving support to people who are on the way up is like me as well reaching other goals of just being helpful.
Do you have any big more collaborations or solo projects in the works?
Gotta finish that album for Hoko Sounds, End of Light. I’m also putting together this 3D gallery where THERE is the only place you can listen to and stream the album. It’d be this MLG experience with my album. I’m still talking to my friend about that, and the website is a lot harder to build than we thought.
Have you ever considered asking a vocalist to produce for them or collaborate?
People who make noise and sound to create their art is who I’m interested in working with. At least, doing it the same way that I do. But never thought about talking to a vocalist about that before. Most of the people I have tried to work with who are vocalists, it hasn’t worked out. I’m not against trying, and I’ll send back the file, but going out of my way trying for someone else is not what I’m about.
I LOVE The Simpsons. And it’s not like we can ALL be ALL The Simpsons characters. There can’t be THREE Bart Simpsons in one room, you know? There’s only ONE.
So, within your music, you take samples of other tracks and re-appropriate things… Are these samples different according to release?
… Again, tough question. It’s mostly involved with that meta narrative. I want myself to be heard in different ways too. Especially End of Light and Eco Reject Mixtape, I’m just so drawn to using sound as art design that it doesn’t matter about the samples as much as how I use them. Like in wrestling, but I don’t want to be the champion person.
You bring your belt here, btw?
I mean, it’s IN the BUILDING. But, I seek out people whose goals are similar to mine in sound and production.
When did you see that sort of crowd opening up to more of your intentions with sound?
Definitely, post-internet. I want to try and be a focal person in changing presence during live performance and set an example for other producers to do the same. Like, as theatrical as the Undertaker. All the aesthetics are all individually represented by one DJ or producer.
When’s End of Light coming out?
It’s still not done yet. Been working on it since I got outta jail. I guess November until now.
Tell me about being in jail…
Lemme think of the best words for it. Just the cops and everything surrounding it. I was actually going to turn this into an article or essay for Vice. Anyhow, I was in L.A. and went on tour with Sean’s old roommate, Snow White, and his band and we were outside a store around Sacramento (weird northern Cali cow town) after this show, had NO money, I tried to steal a Cliff Bar and on the way out, and they caught me.
One, I didn’t realize it’d be a big deal or noticeable at all, so I didn’t even think about it. They totally profiled us in the store, we’re the only freaks for miles, and then caught me on the way out. So, they take us back into the store, and it’s chaos I didn’t realize had erupted. It seemed like such a big event for something so tiny. Andy was trying to fight one guy off of him as they put hand cuffs on him. These are like loss-prevention guards too. Put handcuffs on me too. It was crazy. The store called the police, we were put in jail, and got bailed out. They gave us court dates, and I was like, “I’m never coming back here. Ever. Write me a ticket for how much this is, or however?”
After, I was going to play this show in Seattle before Massacooramaan, the Fade To Mind guy, and a bounty hunter came and arrested me AT the show. I was getting ready to come down off stage AFTER sound-check, and he’s standing RIGHT THERE. I didn’t find out until later that the bail bonds guys were fucking with me. This stuff has never happened to me, so I was genuinely scared when I get to the Seattle County jail. Since I missed the court date, the bum-fuck town listed my case as robbery, and wanted to charge me with a felony for taking that energy bar. So I had to wait for the Sheriff to come get me three states away.
Thus, this would be the article for Vice: all these chain-gang coops with parks and jails and facilities. Like, they’d transport us everywhere, where there’d be no chance for occupancy ALL OVER the West Coast. I met SO MANY people on that trip that it was literally like I spent my summer vacation taking a trip with the prison system. It was FUCKED UP. They just get moved around all day long. Just moving people around ALL DAY long. On a totally other level. So I fell into this three-month crack. And definitely thought of a lot what I’d like to do when I got out. Like, write a software for that meta theater club idea. Just get that idea of all these aesthetics into ONE character and party.
Out of all that fucking shit, did you ever get that energy bar?
FUCK NO! No more fucking energy bars. No more Muscle Milk or Monster. None of that.
Where are you off to next?
Pittsburgh. Everywhere.
